>> it's pretty hard on this one, charlie because he's right on the debt ceiling. major history absolutely dead on. but the debt sealing is a fraud. a total fraud. shouldn't exist. people from alan greenspan to tim geithner to anyone who has looked at it, to paul krugman say it is a total fraud. it's a political device. so on that he's right. and on the substance, right now i think that obama, he may not have articulated as well as quo have but i think he has clearly indicated that if you are looking for more deficit reduction, a bigger deal, not a big deal, he's willing to go pretty far for a democrat on entitlements. right now republicans-- . >> rose: how do you know that? >> well, i think he said he's willing to do that. he has put on the table in private conversations that they had in december, he was perfectly willing to go along with the change in the change for social security, he indicated strongly that he would look at some kind of means testing for affluent medicare recipients. those aren't little things. they are not as much as some people want. but the